Questions Directed to Session IV Panel

Kevin Haas, National Band and Tag

I don't know about everybody else here but I am just about at information overload at this point. The discussions I have heard from all manufacturers, we manufacturers, in providing yet another product to the market, being barcoded eartags. I keep hearing the word, "database." Central database, keeping the information flow centralized, being able to access the information no matter where you are. And just to share with everyone something that I learned recently, I am sure everyone has heard in the news lately that the computer super highway that a lot of people want to put in, what they are talking about is a product that is already there and it is called the Internet. I don't know anything about the Internet but I just bought this book the other day and it has a disc inside that will allow me to load it on my computer at home and log onto the Internet. I looked in the glossary or the introduction in this book and it is almost like it is a revelation. It almost sounds like we could set up a database on the Internet and everybody in the whole country could access and get the information they wanted. It is not necessarily a question, it might just be more of a thought provoking statement, maybe the use of the Internet could be the database everybody keeps talking about that may be accessible at this point. I don't know the first thing about Internet, all I know is that it may be a useful tool.

James Davis, USDA-APHIS

This would indeed be a continuing shift in our paradigm of livestock identification, but there are many applications we would have to look at.

Q.         Ken Larson, Lockhead El) Technology

Dr. Unger, two parts: you didn't mention anything about the cost of the DNA system, could you just briefly outline that a little bit for us and then the 50 minutes, if there is a simple reason, why does it take 50 minutes to do your analysis?

A.             Thomas Unger, Miragen

The 50 minutes refers to the antibody profile assay. It takes 50 minutes to perform so once you put on the blood sample, you have to go through those four steps and by the end of the 50 minutes you will have this color coded, bar coded, identification of that animal. That is a process that requires about 50 minutes.

Q.              Unidentified

Any way to accelerate that? The processing plant now processes an animal in what I understand is a matter of seconds.

A.              Thomas Unger, Miragen

There are, if sample size is not limiting, you could probably accelerate that somewhat. The test that we have right now was developed more for human applications where you are getting a sample, you are doing clinical trial evaluation, you are evaluating presence of a virus or something like that. You don't want to waste a lot of sample for identification, that is what the test is originally geared to do. If sample size was limiting, if you are at a slaughter house I imagine that is not going to be a problem, you could probably speed that up somewhat. As far as DNA testing, DNA testing is going to be a lot longer and probably more expensive because the antibody profile assay takes blood, whatever you can scrape blood off a piece of fabric and use it. Now DNA, that is going to be an additional step because DNA is typically contained within cells. You break that, but there is significantly more information that you can obtain with DNA so if you have a little bit of time, DNA might be a better route to go. DNA also has the advantage of requiring literally one single cell in order to get that information. The antibody profile is very sensitive but it is not down to a level where if you could take one cell under a microscope so there are some tradeoffs between the two technologies, speed, sensitivity and things like that. The cost of antibody profile is typically at about $12 an assay, something like that and it is a comparative test which means you typically run two strips or if you trying to match something.

Q.              Unidentified

You are saying $12 if we send you the sample. What if we have the equipment in the plant, what are we looking at cost wise?

A.              Thomas Unger, Miragen

About the same, the test is pretty simple, it can be automated. There are instruments out there that allow you to run a large number of samples so the labor component is really insignificant in that sense.

Q.             Unidentified

But if I buy the system that does the antibody testing, what am I paying, what is the cost?

A.              Thomas Unger, Miragen

We have different type kits. Our largest, it is still on the order of about $12 per test. A DNA will typically run probably, depends of what kind of analysis to be performed, a simple identification it is probably a lot less, probably about $40 or less. If you want to do some genetic trait analysis, that will cost a little bit more.

Unidentified

All I want is the unique number that this flesh represents. That is all I want.

Thomas Unger, Miragen

OK, antibody profile assay is what I would recommend, it will cost you $12 a pop. You don't need to perform an assay each time, that can actually be archived. Archiving with the system I explained is roughly about $.75 per part and that allows you essentially indefinite storage.

Arne Nielsen, MAGTAG I/S

I am not able to answer the question about the Internet but I would like to put in at least a comment. When you have the possibility to run a central cattle database or central database, we need to have a sense from all of the people that have the right, you have to decide who is allowed to go, allowed to read or allowed to update. That must be well defined, of course. That would require, in my opinion, online access for all people who are able to access this database. From there, on the technical end there might not be a very big difference between the Internet and the on-line of a regional basis or central or country or a little country like Denmark. But, I have seen something about Internet also, but I have not found out the whys of it yet.

Session Wrap-Up Nancy Robinson, Livestock Marketing Association

I agree with you, I am at information overload myself so I will keep this quick and fast. We have learned a lot today, I think. We found out that the demands for effective cost efficient compatible systems of ID are there, are clearly there. We have learned that the federal government is prepared to partner with the private sector in developing, encouraging and establishing national systems of ID. Also, it is clear that we want to control the ID agenda, not have it controlled for us or imposed on us by the government. There are clearly issues of standardization, cost, what ID systems work for the various species and segments of the industry, data management systems, etc. ID technology has become highly advanced and is being surely, if not slowly, incorporated into farming and ranching operations, feed lots, markets and slaughter plants for tracking genetics, production management, regulatory traceback for disease, residue and pathogen control.